Red State correspondent and national political analyst Neil W. McCabe calls in to join Crom Carmichael, Dr. Carol M. Swain, and host Michael Patrick Leahy on Wednesday’s episode of The Tennessee Star Report to discuss Jack Smith’s indictment of former President Donald Trump over remarks he made on January 6.
TRANSCRIPT
Michael Patrick Leahy: 7:18 AM; broadcasting live from our studios on Music Row in Nashville, Tennessee.
In studio: all-star panelist, former Vanderbilt Professor, Champion of Liberty, Carol Swain; also the original all-star panelist, Crom Carmichael; and on our newsmaker line right now, Neil W. McCabe – he’s a political analyst and has been our national political reporter in the past, now is with Red State. Good morning, Neil W. McCabe. What happened last night with Jack Smith and that indictment?
Neil W. McCabe: Wow – I mean, Jack Smith really lowered the boom. He basically said if the president says something that the Left doesn’t like, we’re gonna send him to jail.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Yeah, that is pretty much it.
Carol Swain, did you see what Jack Smith had to say? And did you see any underlying statute or any behavior by Donald Trump that violated a statute?
Dr. Carol M. Swain: I was appalled by the presentation that he put forth and just how the Left pretends that they have the high moral ground, that they’re saving the nation in some sort of way.
And it’s so clear that this is politically motivated and I believe it will cause thinking Americans to rally around Donald Trump, even if they don’t like the man.
We all have a stake in living in a nation that is not totalitarian. We have a stake in the rule of law, and I believe that the DOJ has abused their powers to the point that most of us have no confidence in our American institutions.
Michael Patrick Leahy: I think you’re exactly right.
Crom, the indictment doesn’t specify a particular statute or behavior that he violated. This sounds like a regurgitation of the failed January 6th committee. They claim that he was involved in a conspiracy to defraud the public because of a speech he gave on the mall.
Crom Carmichael: Well, what I have heard that they’re trying to claim is that Trump knew he had lost the election, but said otherwise. And
Dr. Carol M. Swain: That’s ridiculous.
Crom Carmichael: The main focus of the indictment is that he should have conceded. And, and here’s what’s interesting to me – Al Gore, in 2000, we know that he knew that he had lost Florida because he conceded.
He conceded, then he un-conceded, and then he lost.
So my question is, was Al Gore worse than Trump, because Trump actually never conceded.
Trump has always maintained that there were improprieties in six different states. And that those improprieties cost him the election and that the improprieties were illegal.
That’s what he has claimed, and he’s done that consistently.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Carol, you were gonna explain why this entire thing is so ridiculous.
Dr. Carol M. Swain: I can tell you that Donald Trump was fully convinced, as are many of his supporters – and I can tell you that I believe the 2020 election was fraught with irregularities and that the pandemic was used to do all sorts of things that would not normally have been acceptable.
I believe that he fully believed that he would be restored to office and that the fraud would be uncovered and overturned.
And Bill Barr did a great disservice because Bill Barr announced before he had looked at any evidence that there was no fraudulent behavior. So whatever took place, I would say that the DOJ was involved in it even back then.
And so my whole point here is that there’s no evidence that Donald Trump ever believed or believed today that he lost that election. And many of his supporters and those of us that watch the early election returns and watched the reporting about the pipe in Georgia, and saw them shut down everything, and then the next morning everything had flipped.
I mean, there was so much going on that I think that many thinking Americans believe as Donald Trump, that that was a stolen election in some way, and it was done in so many different ways. I mean, Zuckerberg and his drop boxes. The fact that there was no chain or command in many places around those boxes.
I think that the whole idea that the DOJ thinks they know what Donald Trump felt, or thought, or knew – he just didn’t go along with their plan.
Crom Carmichael: Well, what’s interesting to me, Carol, is what you just said is a hundred percent accurate in terms of the history of it. I can’t think of a single time, a single time that Donald Trump indicated in any way that he thought he legitimately lost the election.
Michael Patrick Leahy: That’s a very good point.
Crom Carmichael: But, that’s what they’re trying to claim – that he knew he lost – and fabricated all of the irregular, fabricated all the irregularities.
Michael Patrick Leahy: And on that note, let me ask Neil W. McCabe this question.
Neil, so Mike “Judas” Pence and “Krispy Kreme” Christie have both come out and said, ‘Well, because he’s been indicted on these frivolous, phony charges he should be disqualified for president.’
To me, I think this is gonna backfire big time on Pence and Christie. Your thoughts?
Neil W. McCabe: I didn’t see that with Pence; but, you know, Pence has been really a heartbreak for me.
I remember him as a congressman.
I remember cheering him on when he was the governor of Indiana.
And you know, when he was vice president, I interviewed him, and I thought he was a fine vice president. He certainly was a loyal guy.
And then suddenly, you know, at the end, he decided that his own political future was more important than the democracy, and the country, and the election, and in the way he’s cooperated, not just with the J6 committee, but with Jack Smith – are we reaching the point where the president’s conversations with his own vice president can be used against him?
Michael Patrick Leahy: Well, that’s why I call him “Judas” Pence, as Steve Bannon does
I wanna ask.
Neil W. McCabe: Terrible. It’s absolutely terrible.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Neil, let me ask Carol and Crom this question.
So the polls for the GOP nomination show Trump up over DeSantis by 37 points. Depending on the poll, in the general election, he’s either slightly behind, tied, or slightly ahead of Joe Biden.
How will this ridiculous indictment play out politically in terms of how will this influence the GOP nomination for President, Carol Swain?
Dr. Carol M. Swain: Well, first of all, we know that polls can’t be trusted, and so I would question the polls – they’re easily manipulated. And so I don’t have any clear prediction, but if he is tried in D.C. you can be sure that he would be convicted.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Oh, he’ll be – Dershowitz has already said he’ll be convicted – and by the way, they got a very Lefty judge there, so he’ll be convicted.
Dr. Carol M. Swain: Why are they using black female Judges and prosecutors to do this?
Michael Patrick Leahy: Good question.
Crom Carmichael.
Crom Carmichael: You know, if Pence and Christie really felt as strongly as they do about this, then they should drop out and support DeSantis. They should prove that this isn’t political on their part.
They should drop out and support DeSantis.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Now, that’s a very good argument.
Crom Carmichael: I’m saying if they’re saying that the country can’t afford this – they’re so far behind in the polls that they should drop out.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Neil McCabe, we’ve got one minute left in this segment.
Bring it home, brother. What’s this gonna mean for the GOP nomination?
Neil W. McCabe: Well, I think that this is further confirmation that Republicans have to choose whether they are going to decide their nominee or is the Justice Department gonna decide their nominee?
And I think people are gonna reject that.
And it almost takes all of Trump’s personality and policies out of the equation completely, and it’s a binary choice.
You know, is the DOJ running this thing is there an “FBI Primary?”
Everybody was worried about New Hampshire. Now they’re worried about what the FBI and DOJ’s gonna say.
And it’s shocking that so many of Trump’s rivals are going along with this.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Well, just two so far. Crom wants to add one thing.
Neil W. McCabe: One is enough, right?
Crom Carmichael: But you know, Neil, I don’t think it’s shocking, which is what’s so dismaying generally speaking about the way the Republican party is trying to stand up for the country – the Party itself.
I’m setting aside Trump – but the party itself.
Man, it’s discouraging at that level.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Carol, do you wanna close out this segment?
Dr. Carol M. Swain: Well, what I find is that the Republican Party is adrift and they could come together around this issue because what the DOJ is doing is just so over the top.
You would think they would be united and that every Republican would say they would pardon Trump if they were elected.
Michael Patrick Leahy: And on that note, Neil W McCabe, the Great Neil w McCabe. Thanks for joining us today.
Neil W. McCabe: Take care guys.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Carol Swain, Crom Carmichael – we’ll be back with some local stuff after this.
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