On Wednesday’s episode of The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy, State Senator Brent Taylor (R-Memphis) tells listeners what he really thinks about Shelby County District Attorney Steve Mulroy and what appears to be his cooperation with restorative justice groups working in Memphis and across Tennessee to reimagine justice and reinterpret current law through their efforts, among other things, to eliminate cash bail.
Taylor explores different ways to hold district attorneys accountable, including potential methods for termination under consideration; as well as addresses the controversial release of a murder suspect without bail and his proposed legislation to remove Judge Bill Anderson from his role in managing judicial commissioners.
TRANSCRIPT
Michael Patrick Leahy: And welcome back to The Tennessee Star Report – broadcasting live from our studios in downtown Nashville. In-studio, the original all star panelist, Crom Carmichael. On our newsmaker line right now, our friend from Memphis, State Senator Brent Taylor.
Senator Taylor, welcome to The Tennessee Star Report.
State Senator Brent Taylor: Well, thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. I wish I were in your new studio, but unfortunately, I’m in a committee hearing at Cordell Hall and so I stepped out long enough so I could talk with you.
Michael Patrick Leahy: I can promise you, you would have more fun with us in-studio.
State Senator Brent Taylor: No doubt. I believe that.
Michael Patrick Leahy: But we look forward to having you here at some point in the future.
You made some news yesterday – you sent a letter to Shelby County’s District Attorney that’s – in my view – the soft-on-crime District Attorney Steve Mulroy to see if he would reveal and release the agreements he has with these restorative justice organizations that want to eliminate all bail.
Tell us about this letter and what the response has been.
State Senator Brent Taylor: Yeah, so as I have monitored the district attorney’s time in office – which is about a year and a half now – I’ve just noticed that there seems to be this move toward restorative justice – and it appears that he is obsessed with restorative justice. He is doing everything he possibly can to prevent prosecuting people.
And as I looked. I saw who he is aligned in his office with – it’s organizations like the Justice Innovation Lab, the Vera Institute, and Just City.
And so I began to do some research on those organizations and what I learned is that they are committed to decreasing prosecutions. There they have on their website, proud as a peacock, that they want to eliminate cash bail.
And to eliminate cash, but the bail system statewide and to me, this is an anathema of what the General Assembly is attempting to do. And, you know, in recent years, the General Assembly has passed truth in sentencing where if you commit certain crimes, you’re going to do 100 percent of your time.
We are working, currently on a juvenile blended sentencing bill, which will mean that juveniles will have to spend some time in adult prison for certain offenses. We’re looking to have automatic transfers of juveniles. We’re looking to increase penalties for other crimes. And you know, the General Assembly has kind of given the direction we want our district attorneys to go in an effort to make Tennesseans safe.
But yet we have a progressive D.A. when we are actually needing an aggressive D.A.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Are you expecting that there are some hidden agreements between the District Attorney Steven Mulroy down in Shelby County and these restorative justice groups where he’s – I suppose you could say – trying to figure out how to circumvent the law of the state with regards to bail?
State Senator Brent Taylor: Well, I don’t think there are any hidden agreements – I don’t think that at all. But what I do think is that there are agreements, there are memorandums of understanding with these groups, with their stated goal of decreasing prosecutions, ending “mass incarceration,” and eliminating bail.
And in one in particular, Just City, which has an office in Memphis – I fear that they’re playing an outsized role in these restorative justice schemes that are being advanced by D.A. Mulroy and I want to know whether or not they have exclusive access to real-time bail data.
And what advanced knowledge do they have when information is being released? My fear is that they are actually shaping and manipulating the information to show that what they’re doing is actually working.
So I personally – and I think a growing number of Memphians – are beginning to realize we just don’t trust the data that comes out of the D.A.’s office because they have a vested interest in showing a particular outcome. So that’s what I want to delve into.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Gotcha. So is the memorandum of understanding between the district attorney there and these, you know, restorative justice groups, is that already public? And it’s what you’re seeking is just the data of information exchange about bail in real-time.
State Senator Brent Taylor: Well, I want not only the data is important and we need that so that we can either challenge or verify what’s coming out of the DA’s office. What I’m more interested in this specific request that I sent yesterday.
I want any MOUs, I want any contracts, any agreements. I want to see work products. I want to see recommendations that they have made to the D.A. I just want to see what influence these restorative justice outfits have on our D.A.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Senator Taylor, Crom Carmichael has a question for you here.
Crom Carmichael: Senator, thanks so much for taking time to be on the show.
Question for you: Governor DeSantis in Florida, there was a D.A. that acted similarly to this. A Tampa D.A. publicly said he was not going to enforce certain laws. And Governor DeSantis fired him for violating his oath of office.
He didn’t go through the impeachment process. He didn’t go through anything. He said, ‘You took a solemn oath to uphold the Constitution of the State of Florida. And our Constitution says that our legislature makes the laws.’ And the prosecutor and the prosecutor’s job is to carry out the laws.
Is there any way to put some teeth in legislation so that district attorneys who do not uphold the constitution of Tennessee can be terminated by some official in Tennessee rather than go through some kind of other process?
State Senator Brent Taylor: Yeah, there are provisions in the state Constitution that allows the General Assembly to either impeach, which is a really high standard that would require him to commit a criminal act while in office. And although I have policy disagreements with D.A. Mulroy – I actually know him and have known him a long time. He and I served on the county commission together. I don’t believe he’s committing criminal acts at all. He’s just not that kind of person. But I do have fundamental policy disagreements with him and I think the General Assembly does as well.
There’s another provision in the state Constitution that allows for the General Assembly to remove him. But generally, it’s thought that you would need to remove him for a cause, and at this point, I don’t think there is a cause to do so you know, being bad at your job is not the same as not doing your job.
But that’s not to say that, that there couldn’t be a cause down the road. And in order to uncover that cause, we have to do our due diligence, and that’s part of what I’m attempting to do is like, ‘okay, let’s look at the agreements.’ Let’s see what influence of these outside groups, these outside outfits that want to fundamentally change our judicial system and to use their term, they say they want to “redefine justice.”
Well, with all due respect, redefining justice and defining justice rests exclusively with the General Assembly.
Michael Patrick Leahy: And so has District Attorney Mulroy down in Shelby County, has he responded to your request for this information?
State Senator Brent Taylor: Not directly although his response thus far has been to say that I am not a lawyer, nor have I been a prosecutor, and that I don’t know what I’m talking about.
Michael Patrick Leahy: But you’re a member of the Tennessee General Assembly and you have oversight responsibilities and duties.
State Senator Brent Taylor: I was going to make the point. He’s correct.
I’m not a lawyer, but I am a lawmaker.
And the General Assembly has created D.A.’s. and judicial districts and judges. And the D.A. will do exactly what I and I can convince 16 of my fellow senators to agree with me. They’ll do exactly what we asked them to do.
And in my professional career, I didn’t need to be a lawyer because I employed lawyers. So, you know, you’re losing the argument when you have to shift it to a position of authority by saying, you know, ‘you’re not a lawyer, you wouldn’t understand.’
And, look, I’m not a veterinarian, but I know a horse’s ass when I see one.
Michael Patrick Leahy: That’s a good line.
Hey, Senator Taylor, so you said something very interesting here. And I think this gets to the core of the problem. Not just in Memphis, not just in Nashville, not in the State of Tennessee, but I think around the country.
You make the laws; you, as a member of the legislature. You make the laws.
But in his other responses to you, he said, ‘Well, I’m the lawyer,’ and you’re not reversing the lines of authority here.
So, since he’s an expert in, in manipulating the law, perhaps, right? He’s saying he’s the expert; he’s the higher authority.
We see this everywhere. And so I have to applaud you for making that point. Isn’t this a problem, though, that we see all around the state?
You’re relatively new in the State Senate – but bureaucrats, district attorneys, don’t seem to want to follow the law as passed by the state.
Your thoughts, Senator Taylor?
State Senator Brent Taylor: No, I agree with that. As a matter of fact, one of the things that I have been surprised at since I’ve arrived in the Senate is, you know, I was on the city council down in Memphis, I was on the county commission. And even the mayors, when they appoint their division directors, which would be the equivalent of commissioners – the governor’s cabinet – that they have to be confirmed by the legislative body, have to be confirmed by the city council, the county commission.
One of the things that I was surprised at, guys, was when I arrived in the Senate, the governor appoints the commissioners without legislative confirmation.
Okay, so why is that important? I think, you know, the General Assembly sets policy. We fund the policies we set through the budget request that the governor gives us. But yet, we hand that over to the executive branch for them to execute. And many times it’s being handed over to a commissioner, who we know nothing about their political philosophies or their philosophies about government. And many times they may take what we want and go in a different direction.
And so I have found that a little bit troubling. I don’t know what the answer is. And you know, the State of Tennessee has been operating since 1796, and I’ve only arrived in the last year and a half. So I’m not sure I’m an expert on it.
But that is one of the things that I have been concerned about, which is to your point – it seems that many times, the bureaucrats are able to have an outsized influence on our legislation.
Michael Patrick Leahy: We’ve got about a minute left. Can you give us an update on this judge down there who basically let someone charged with first-degree murder off with no bail?
State Senator Brent Taylor: I do. As a matter of fact, you know, Judge Anderson, he’s also over our judicial commissioners, and he has stated publicly that he has an animus toward the bail system, and that’s influencing not only his decisions, but the decisions of the judicial commissioners of whom he supervises.
And I have tried my best, guys, to try to see this from Judge Anderson’s point of view, but quite frankly, I can’t get my head that far up my ass to see it.
And so we’re going to see, I’m going to introduce legislation that will effectively remove him from that judicial commissioner management role.
He’ll still be a judge, but we need to find somebody else to manage our judicial commission.
Michael Patrick Leahy: Outstanding – and thank you for the emphatic language.
State Senator Brent Taylor. Hey, we look forward to having you come in-studio here.
State Senator Brent Taylor: I look forward to it. Please, please invite me back.
Michael Patrick Leahy: We absolutely will.
State Senator Brent Taylor wants some information from Shelby County District Attorney Stephen Mulroy.
We’ll be back with more after this.
You’re listening to The Tennessee Star Report. I’m Michael Patrick Leahy.
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Photo “Brent Taylor” by Senator Brent Taylor.
