Tennessee Congressman Mark Green Outlines His Bill for Removing Critical Race Training from U.S. Military Academy

Tennessee Congressman Mark Green Outlines His Bill for Removing Critical Race Training from U.S. Military Academy


Live from Music Row Friday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. –  host Leahy welcomed U.S. Rep. Mark Green (R-TN-07) to the newsmakers line to discuss his proposed bill that would outlaw Critical Race Theory training in U.S. Military Academy.

Leahy: We are joined on the newsmakers line by our very good friend, Congressman Mark Green. Good morning, Congressman Green.

Green: Well, good morning to you guys. Thanks for having me on the show.

Leahy: Well, we’re always happy to have you on. Is Congress in recess today or this week?

Green: We are in what’s called committee week. All of our Zoom meetings are committee meetings. All our committee meetings are Zoom meetings. Yesterday we met on the AUMF and stuff like that.

Leahy: Can you do your Zoom meetings from the district or do you do them in D.C., typically?

Green: Usually the district for me. If it’s a committee that I’m actually running, I’m a ranking member of the Western Hemisphere, I prefer to do that in in Washington because you just have the assets of the staff there. If something changes in the middle of the committee, you can make things happen. So that’s much better. But if I’m just a member, I can be home and doing the meeting from Clarksville or really anywhere in the district.

Leahy: We’ll invite you to come in studio someday and you can do your Zoom meeting from the studio if you like. (Chuckles) Live and on-air.

Green: That would be interesting.

Leahy: You can come in anytime. Just come on in the studio. We would love to have you in the studio. Now on Wednesday, Congressman Green, you introduced a very important bill to block Critical Race Theory training in U.S. Military Service Academy. Tell us about that bill.

Green: Certainly. Well, we had learned that Critical Race Theory was being taught at West Point, my alma mater. And Critical Race Theory makes various assumptions because of the way the theory came from, the critical theory itself. It’s a complete rejection of America’s founding principles. The theory rejects toleration of any kind of different viewpoint. It rejects equality under the law.

It rejects self-government. It’s a terrible Marxist-based ideology. Essentially, if you assume someone is racist because they look a certain way, that’s racism. And so Critical Race Theory only divides us, it doesn’t unite us. And that’s why it can’t work in the military. We are here at these academies teaching these young people how to lead warriors someday.

And we’re teaching them to hate their country and to hate each other. And you don’t get unit cohesion that is necessary for victory and combat by teaching this incredibly flawed, intentionally flawed ideology. We basically said you can’t teach this in these academies, and hopefully, that will pass.

Leahy: How did it come to be that Critical Race Theory is being taught at the U.S. Military Academy and apparently other service academies?

Green: The previous superintendent of the universe of West Point hired academicians and did so under the, I think, assumption that they had to be liberal to be good. I don’t know really how he hired these people, but they’re in there and they’re teaching it. And then they push back on academic integrity and say, well, we’ve got to be able to teach what we want to teach.

And so despite the fact that many of them, in fact, most of them are military officers. This tension existed. The last superintendent allowed it. And the current superintendent, who actually is an African American guy, he hates Critical Race Theory, and he’s doing everything he can to get it out of the curriculum. And we’re going to make it really easy and make it against the law.

Leahy: Now, here’s the thing. You have a slight disadvantage in the House. What is it now, like, 218 to 210 Democrat advantage? Something like that?

Green: No, we have a Delta of five.

Leahy: Delta of five. Not eight. That’s a very narrow Delta. What happens with your bill?

Green: What we have to do is convince enough guys on the National Defense Authorization Act inside the House Armed Services Committee to put it on the National Defense Authorization Act. It probably has no chance of passing as a bill. But what we’ll oftentimes do in bills like this is attach it to the National Defense Authorization Act, which everybody knows we have to pass.

We have to authorize our military. If I can convince enough Democrats in that committee to put it on, and there are some real moderate Democrats in that committee, they wanted to be on that committee because they’re pro-military, which puts some conflicts with the heart of the Democrat Party anyway. So we get those guys convinced and we get it on the NDAA and they can’t take it off. They can’t say no.

Leahy: It sounds like you’re somewhat optimistic you’ll be able to get it in there.

Green: I think there’s a good chance. Adam Smith, the chairman of the committee is not afraid to push back against Nancy Pelosi. He did so on the National Guardsmen around the capital and wrote her a scathing letter, made it public, and humiliated her on that. That was part of the big step down from thousands of these guys to a few hundred.

Leahy: Do you find being up there in a situation where the very narrow majority seems to have zero interest in doing the legislative process the way the founders of the country envisioned it with thoughtful consideration at the committee levels. And then when you have a bit of a consensus, bring it to the floor for a vote. They seem to be hardcore ideologues interested in pushing forward a far left agenda. Do you find that frustrating right now up there in Washington?

Green: Yes. It’s very frustrating at times. I’m like, what is going on here? The thing that they’re doing is they’re justifying their actions by saying, if a bill passed a previous Congress’s floor, then they can bypass the committee process. Which makes no sense because now there’s a new Congress in there and they should have a voice just because it passed the last Congress doesn’t mean it should not bypass the committee process.

That’s what Nancy Pelosi is doing. And all these radical, liberal leftist stuff like the Equality Act being a prime example that strips religious freedoms from people. And that, by the way, tells you where they think the rights come from. If the government can take them away, they believe our rights come from the government, which you and I think totally differently.

They come from God, our Creator. But they’re doing this stuff and ramming it through. But now we picked up two more of the special elections. One out of Louisiana. Looks like we’re going to pick up one in Texas. So that’s going to make it even harder for them. We are getting there. There’s a strong chance we win the majority in 18 months.

Leahy: But it’s going to be a long 18 months, isn’t it? (Chuckles)

Green: Yeah, it is. It is very frustrating, Michael.

Leahy: Look, I have great empathy for your circumstance there because you’re a very gung ho get it done kind of guy. It’s a situation where the leadership has subverted the congressional process to such a degree, it makes it virtually impossible to get anything done in a bipartisan way.

Green: Oh yeah, absolutely. Well, the truth of the matter is there isn’t much overlap between the two parties anymore anyway. The areas where we can actually do something in a bipartisan fashion are very small. We certainly hope the military and national security, things like that. But even there, we’re running into walls.

Leahy: As an example of that, let’s take Steve Cohen from Memphis, who I think is a kind of a crazy left-wing person. If you were to be in a room with them him, is there anything that two of you could agree on?

Green: I would only be there if it was my duty to be there. (Leahy laughs)

Leahy: That’s a good answer. That is a very good answer. Are you going to spend a lot of your time helping Republicans win the House back in 2022?

Green: That’s my key goal. I did it last time. I worked for 30 different candidates. Every one of them got either elected or reelected. We’re slowly putting together the people that we’re going to support in the next cycle. And my job is to make sure that we take the House and make a Republican Speaker of the House.

Leahy: Well, that sounds great. I really appreciate you coming on the show today.

Listen to the full second hour here:

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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio.
Photo “People Voting” by Phil Roeder. CC BY 2.0.






State Rep. Chris Todd Discusses His New Bill Proposing Term Limits for Members of the United States Congress

State Rep. Chris Todd Discusses His New Bill Proposing Term Limits for Members of the United States Congress


Live from Music Row Thursday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. –  host Leahy welcomed Tennessee State Representative (R), Chris Todd of Jackson, to the studio where he explained his new resolution HJR0008 calling for term limits for members of the U.S. Congress.

Leahy: We are joined in studio by State Representative Chris Todd from Jackson. We’re going to talk a little bit about a resolution he has here. It’s fascinating. If you want to chat with representative Todd our number is 615-737-9522. Chris, you have introduced a resolution HJR0008. Tell us about that.

Todd: This is a resolution that once it’s passed it will be sent to the U.S. Congress and it will be a request for them to call an Article V. A constitutional Article V convention for the states to meet for one purpose and that is to propose amendments to the Constitution. And this particular resolution is for one single topic and that is for term limits on the U.S. Congress.

Leahy: Now in the resolution, you don’t specify what those limits should be. In other words what you don’t say members of the House of Representatives can only serve six terms.

Todd: Exactly. Yes. This is up to the delegates. Once they get there and debate this if they come to an agreement. That’s if they come to an agreement, then they would propose that amendment to the Constitution back to the States and it would then take 38 states to actually ratify. So any change to our Constitution whatsoever takes 38 states to ratify that change.

Leahy: And there are two ways to get it to consideration by state legislatures for ratification.

Todd: Yes.

Leahy: One is to have the House and the Senate pass it. I think that requires a two-thirds vote in both the House and the Senate to get it to the states for consideration. But the other way is to hold this Article V convention. Has there ever been an Article V Convention held in the United States?

Todd: There is not. Congress has always proposed every single amendment to the Constitution and then given the states the ability to ratify that. Many have failed, but as we know many have passed. We just celebrated the last summer the 19th amendment that gave women the right to vote. Tennessee was the last state to actually ratify that.

Leahy: I did not know that.

Todd: Very interesting history on that one. When you look at the Constitution, it’s an amazing document. It was certainly divinely-inspired. There’s no question about that. And to have this particular article in there that gave the states the ability to amend the Constitution when Congress would not respond. And I know our own famed U.S. Senator Fred Thompson many years ago had a strong push to get this done and it failed at the last minute.

They pulled the rug out from under him. And so we know as citizens that Congress is never going to limit themselves. That’s been proven and it’s probably more so now. And so it’s up to the states to deal with this. And this is the way that our founders put it in there. You can look at all the documents that they wrote about the Constitution and all the opinions they had about it. And they certainly line up to support this exact method and effort to rein in Congress.

Leahy: What you just said about the divine inspiration of the Constitution. This is something that Os Guinness has written about Os is a descendant of the Guinness Brewery guy, but he’s a scholar. He has written about what he calls the Golden Triangle of Freedom. And in that he says in any society freedom requires virtue. Virtue requires faith. And Faith requires freedom. And the entire basis of our constitutional republic he says is built on that Golden Triangle of Freedom. I tend to agree with him on that.

Todd: I would too. I certainly would too.

Leahy: Now the Article V convention I think there’s a group that my friend Mark Meckler one of the early founders of the Tea Party Movement. And now he’s acting as the interim CEO of Parler. A very accomplished guy. He put this convention of states together idea to get an Article V convention. I think they’ve got like 16 states that have signed on to it. This would make Tennessee the 17th state except this is a very narrow purpose, right? The only thing under this resolution an Article 5 convention could address would be term limits.

Todd: Exactly. And our delegates that we send from the state of Tennessee are bound by whatever our legislature tells them to do at that convention by law under punishment. If they do not we can remove them as delegates and charge them with a Class E Felony.

Leahy: Class E Felony. That’s something you do not want to have on your record.

Todd: No sir.

Leahy: So in theory, if they got up to I think they need like two thirds of the state 36 states.

Todd: 34.

Leahy: 34 states to have an Article V convention. If this went if this passes would this would make Tennessee like the 17th state?

Todd: Potentially. The convention of the states has not contacted me since I’ve started running his this year. So I’m not really sure all of those 16 if they are a single article resolution or multiple. Because in the past they’ve had multiple they’ve had balanced budget amendment for another lumped into that. And so there’s some I guess debate as to whether or not you could call a convention if 34 states had a mixture of calls basically.

Leahy: That’s an interesting point. The resolution could say the state legislature of I don’t know Nebraska as an example. I don’t know if they’re on the list but they could say yes, let’s call a convention of states and we’ll talk about anything. Anything is on the table. But that’s not what your resolution does.

Todd: Correct. It is very very narrow. And because of that debate us term limits is another nonprofit organization that is really striving to get this done. They’ve started this new effort to do just single a single article of all the states and that way there’s no debate. There’s no question. when it goes to Congress the Constitution says they shall once 34 states gives them this resolution. They shall set a time and a place for the convention.

Leahy: Now, why did you decide that this was important? Why did you decide that you wanted to spend your time working on this resolution in this session of the general assembly?

Todd: Well a couple of reasons. One I believe in the effort. I believe the effort for term limits is a necessity. On a state level and I’ve had many people ask me this question. Are going to propose the same thing for the state legislature? and years ago I probably would have said yes, but as I have seen elections. Not just because I ran. But I was probably more involved running for office and I watched other elections. And I’ve seen in the last go-around how easy it is to turn over this particular legislature in the state of Tennessee.

Leahy: So you don’t see the need here.

Todd: The money is so big on a national level that’s what is the barrier.

Leahy: And, the money to elect somebody in Tennessee 90 percent of it can come from all like California and New York.

Listen to the second hour here:

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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio












Tennessee Star National Correspondent Neil W. McCabe Weighs in on How Pence Will Rule in Joint Session of Congress

Tennessee Star National Correspondent Neil W. McCabe Weighs in on How Pence Will Rule in Joint Session of Congress


Live from Music Row Wednesday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. –  host Leahy welcomed Tennessee Star National Correspondent Neil W. McCabe to the newsmakers line.

During the third hour, McCabe weighed in on how he thought the joint session of Congress would go on Wednesday as Vice President Pence has the ability to object to the certification of Joe Biden as president-elect. Unfortunately, he believed that Mike Pence would not object and that the former vice president would be certified.

Leahy: We are in the studio with our good friend, the original all-star panelist Crom Carmichael. And on the newsmaker line is our Washington correspondent for the Star News Network and the Tennessee Star Neil McCabe. Good morning, Neil.

McCabe: Men, good morning to you.

Carmichael: Now you can’t say that on the house floor. (Laughter)

Leahy: Now that is funny Crom. That is funny. So Neil, what is going to happen?

Carmichael: That was good. Neil was good. That was good. Just jumped in there.

Leahy: You can’t say that on the House floor. So today we’ve got a big rally in Washington. How many people are going to be there? Ten thousand? One hundred thousand? Quite a few. They’re going to try to stop the steal. The joint session of Congress begins at 1:00 pm Eastern time. The big question is what will Vice President Mike Pence do? The New York Times and ABC News reported last night that he met with the president and told the president that he wasn’t going to object to the certification of Biden and others. The president says not so fast. What do you think is happening? Do you think Pence will do exactly that?

McCabe: I think Pence will do exactly what Biden did four years ago. And what some of the other vice presidents have done. And he will gavel this thing over as quickly as he possibly can. And if Republicans go through with their challenges he will he will follow the rules. He will recognize people when you supposed to recognize people. Pence is not going to throw out any of these results even from the wacky states where there was obvious fraud. And you know, he’s going to want this thing to be over as quickly as possible.

Leahy: I think you’re probably right. Crom, what do you think the vice president will do?

Carmichael: That’s what I’ve been saying, Michael. You’ve been saying that that’s not going to happen.

Leahy: No, I haven’t been saying that.

Carmichael: You’ve been hoping it’s not going to happen.

Leahy: No. No, no.

Carmichael: You are hoping Mike Pence will do something more.

Leahy: No. No. What I’ve been saying is he could and he has the authority if he wanted to. Maybe you could weigh in on this Neil. I think he has the authority. First, since he’s presiding over the joint session, he would have the authority to first entertain a motion from Ted Cruz to do this 10-day audit of the swing states. What do you say, Neil? Do I have that right or wrong?

McCabe: As a presiding officer?

Leahy: Yeah.

McCabe: He cannot only recognize but he could also you know, make a ruling from the chair and then they would have to rule against him.

Leahy: Who is they? Who could rule against him?

McCabe: Well, both chambers would have to vote. If you oppose the ruling of the chair then both chambers would have to excuse themselves. Then each chamber would have to vote whether or not to overrule the chair. But you know he’s the guy in charge. He’s the presiding officer. What’s going to happen is you he’s just trying to try to get this thing over as quickly as possible.

It’s my understanding that although there are 13 Senators who are willing to challenge some of these states they don’t have Senators who will challenge all of the states. I would be curious to see how many of these states are actually challenged. And then what Matt Gaetz was saying last night was that the Republican leadership, so when they break off the first one up would be a for Arizona.

Leahy: A for Arizona.

McCabe: So when they break off into their separate chambers to deliberate whether or not to throw out Arizona or what Gaetz was saying is that the Republican leadership is going to give some of the Republican debate time to Republicans who opposed to the challenge.

Leahy: There’s not many of them, but they would give them some time right? I saw that.

McCabe: Well there’s not many of them, but the people who like committee chairmen Like Liz Cheney who is number three in the House leadership. And so she’s opposed to the challenge. And on the Senate side the number two Republican Senator John Thune.

Leahy: He’s opposed as well.

McCabe: And he’s a Whip. And he’s whipping against the president. So it’ll be very interesting to see. But the Republican leadership is basically joining with the Democrats to shut this thing down. And so once again conservatives find themselves on the outside looking in. And you know, it’s that paradigm that there are two parties in this country. There’s the party that wants Washington in charge and in control of everything and then there’s the party that doesn’t.

And so there are members of the Washington party both the Republican and the Democratic party. There used to be members of the sort of I’m not Washington party in the Democratic party. But they’ve probably been flushed out. And so if you stop looking at Washington as Democrat and Republican and conservative and liberal and just start looking at Washington as there is the Washington party and the not Washington Party then everything makes sense.

Leahy: So Neil, Crom, and I have been having lively discussions this morning about this whole process. So let me see if I understand this. Now my advice to the vice president if he were to call me this morning would be as the presiding officer of the joint session to first entertain the proposals from Ted Cruz to do this 10-day audit of these disputed states.

McCabe: Absolutely.

Leahy: And what you’re saying is if you were to make that ruling then there would be objections and they would break into their different Houses and they would vote on that. Is that what you’re saying?

McCabe: No. If he was the rule if he was to by Fiat rule out say when Arizona comes up, if he was to rule that Arizona is not certified that would be…

Leahy: No, no, no. I’m saying even before that as a presiding officer as the very first thing that he would do would be to entertain a motion from Ted Cruz on this 10-day commission. That’s what I would recommend he do.

McCabe: You couldn’t object to recognizing somebody on the floor if you get the second, that motion is in play.

Carmichael: And then it gives voted on by each House. Is that how it would work? Can the vice president just do that and would then they break up into each House and vote on that proposal for the 10-day Commission?

McCabe: I don’t know if they’re under House or Senate rules. In the Senate, you could actually rule something like that. And then the Senate would just have to object. Of course, anything can be done by unanimous consent. So they could just take it just you know by you see unanimous consent if nobody objects then it’s done. But what they would have to do is there would have to be a motion there would be a second and then folks would have to vote on it.

Leahy: Here’s what I’m getting at and this is I think more along the lines of Crom on this. So if the vice president were to do that and if and say I want to do the 10-day commission before I open the certificates, which I’m required to do and I’m the presiding officer under the Constitution. I think what you’re saying is if they were breaking up into the House and then into the Senate what would that vote be on the 10-day commission?

McCabe: They would lose.

Leahy: In both ones. And so rather than do that symbolically, the vice president is not going to do that. Is that your take on it?

McCabe: I think that you may be forced to go forward with the action. If Cruz is recognized, of course, that’s the other decision, right?

Leahy: Yeah exactly. Hey, we have 30 seconds. Tomorrow morning what will have happened? Where will we be?

McCabe: Joseph R. Biden, Jr. will be recognized by Congress as the president-elect.

Leahy: I think your unfortunately correct Neil.

Listen to the full third hour here:

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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio.











Senator Bill Hagerty Discusses Commission Proposal and the Use of the Pandemic as Lever to Circumvent the Constitution

Senator Bill Hagerty Discusses Commission Proposal and the Use of the Pandemic as Lever to Circumvent the Constitution


Live from Music Row Tuesday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. –  host Leahy welcomed TN (R) U.S. Senator Bill Hagerty to the newsmakers line.

During the third hour, Senator Hagerty discussed the importance of the Georgia run-off elections and maintaining a Republican U.S. Senate. He also outlined the motivation behind the 10-day audit commission proposed by himself, Senator Marsha Blackburn, and Senator Ted Cruz.

Leahy: We are joined right now by Senator Bill Hagerty on our newsmaker line. Good morning, Senator Hagerty.

Hagerty: Good morning! Good morning! It’s great to be with you again.

Leahy: Congratulations on being sworn in. What was that moment like when you were sworn in as a United States Senator?

Hagerty: Well, I can tell you Michael what a great honor it is to represent the people of Tennessee. I’m a fourth-generation Tennessean and I tell you it touched me deep to my core to be bestowed this honor by the people of our state to represent them at a very critical time in our nation’s history. What I felt was the gravity of the responsibility ahead. And again, I can’t tell you how much I am honored by the opportunity to serve.

Leahy: And you’re exactly right. A very grave time in our history. Today are the run-off elections in Georgia. What do you think’s going to go on down there? And what are your comments on the Georgia run-off elections today?

Hagerty: You know Michael you have been talking about this. I’ve been talking about this. Really the fate of our nation may hang on the results of today’s election. And I would say this to any of your listeners who may be residents of Georgia. Legal residents of Georgia. Please get out and vote today. It’s absolutely critical. If for any reason we were to lose today the two seats and we don’t hold both of those seats that means that Kamala Harris if she is successful in this effort, could be the deciding vote in terms of the control of the United States Senate. She would put Chuck Schumer in charge of the Senate. And Schumer has made it clear what they’ll do.

They’ll first take Georgia, then they’ll change America. And that means packing the court. Forever changing the Supreme Court and turning it into a super legislative body frankly so they can backdoor their radical liberal policies. They’re talking about making D.C. a state and that’s more senators voting for more liberal policies because they’ll both be Democrats. And they may do the same thing with Puerto Rico.

They want to undo the 2017 Tax Act which was the impetus for turning our economy into the juggernaut of the world. That was really the point that made our GDP growth greater than any other nation in the world. They want to reverse all of that. They want to raise all of our taxes so every Tennessean can pay two to four thousand more in taxes every year and they want to take away our freedoms. We can’t allow that to happen and today is the stand to make certain that the Republicans maintain a controlled Senate.

Leahy: On Saturday you joined Senator Marsha Blackburn, Senator Ted Cruz, and eight other United States senators and issued a statement that said in part ‘we intend to vote on January sixth to reject the electors from disputed states as not  “regularly given” and “lawfully certified” the statutory requisite unless and until that emergency 10-day audit is completed.’ Tell us about how that came about.

Hagerty: Well, I’ve been concerned about this from the days following the election. And I’ve been thinking about the vehicle to address this for weeks. I could not Michael in good conscience vote to accept the results of this election when I have such deep doubts about what happened here. To simply rubber-stamp it would be to passively approve a process that I have very deep concerns about. In my view, we have situations where the Constitution was violated.

The United States Constitution explicitly puts the responsibility for state elections in the hands of state legislators. The elected officials in the state. The legislative body. And what’s happened in a number of states is that those legislative bodies have been usurped by activist judges. By executive branch officials. By unelected bureaucrats. What they’ve done is they’ve gone around the Constitution and they’ve used this pandemic as a lever to do it.

They use the pandemic as an excuse to achieve things they could never do before. And what the result has been that they’ve created so much chaos by flooding us with all of these mail-in ballots that the system has been shaken to its core. And we want to have this reviewed. We want to get to the bottom of it quickly. And we want to put those results back to the state legislatures that are responsible and make certain they act.

Leahy: Walk our listeners through what’s going to happen at the joint session of Congress tomorrow. It’s going to be I guess Vice President Pence who will preside over that joint session. It will be held I guess in the House Chambers. All House members will be there. All Senators will be there. You’ll be there. Is that how it’s going to start?

Hagerty: Absolutely. Michael, you’re the expert on constitutional processes. That is as you described it is exactly how it will take place. And then once the objection is raised and it’s got to be raised by both members of the House and Senate we’ve made clear that we’re going to be part of that process. Once that objection is raised we’re going to each return to our own chambers. That means the House members will stay there and the Senate will move back over to the Senate chambers and will engage in two hours of debate on the topic. There will be a vote.

Leahy: The 12th amendment says that the Vice President shall open the envelopes with the certified electors from each state. Will he begin that process? I guess he starts out alphabetically? Or will be there be some sort of delay that happens prior to his opening of those? Do you have any insights on that?

Hagerty: I’m not privy to any maneuvering that would be different from what the 12th amendment calls for.

Leahy: So in that case then do they start alphabetically with like Alabama?

Hagerty: That’s how I understand it.

Leahy: So when they get to Georgia, I guess alphabetically that would be the first one where they come to make an objection. He starts to open up, Georgia, and they start to count them. What happens at that moment?

Hagerty: It could happen well before Georgia.

Leahy: Oh, that’s breaking news if it could happen before Georgia. That’s very interesting.

Hagerty: I’m not saying that it will, it’s not been decided yet. It’s not certain which state it will be. But when an objection is raised and signed by a member of the House and a member of the Senate that objection will have to be very succinct and precise. It’s not going to be debated at that point. And then both bodies go back to their own separate quarters.

Again, the House will stay in their building and the Senate will move back over to the Senate chambers. That will be the precipitant of the two-hour debate. And at that point that they will be called to an end. We will come to a vote. And we’ll see how that vote goes. But my hope is that we will be able to register loudly and clearly that something has to be done about this.

With the commission that we’re talking about, we’ll get to the bottom of it. And I would think this shouldn’t be a partisan issue. I would think the Democrats, as well as Republicans, would want to stand for election integrity and they would be as concerned as I am about violations of the Constitution and about serious allegations.

Leahy: Will there be a single two-hour debate in the Senate where you look over all of these objections to all the states or we’ll each state to which there’s an objection get a two-hour debate?

Hagerty: Unless there is a procedural change my understanding is it will go state by state by state. So the very first state that is objected to that’s where the arguments will be made. All of the arguments could be, you know could be made at that point, but we could also see our objections raised for further states. Again precipitate the same two-hour process.

Leahy: So it could then in theory be if objections were raised to six states. It could be six separate two-hour debates. Is that your understanding of what the process would be like?

Hagerty: That could be the output. I think it would be a very redundant process at that point but that could be the output.

Leahy: Could possibly be the output. Are you getting a lot of pressure from people? For example, Senator Josh Hawley was the first to say he would not certify the electors. He wasn’t part of your group that will call for the 10-day commission. By the way, I think that’s brilliant to go to the precedent of 1877 when they did have such a commission to look at that. But his house was vandalized in D.C. Is that a concern that you might have that people are going to be violent to you?

Hagerty: I think it’s regrettable that this is what our country has come to. You probably also saw that the homes of speaker Pelosi and leader McConnell were vandalized over the weekend. Again violence has no place in this. We need to have a healthy debate again. I’d like to get to the bottom of this. I think the commission is the best way to do it. I also think that state legislatures are clearly the ones responsible for executing the for setting the rules and for executing those rules in their states.

And I want this commission to make very clear, you know, what their findings are and get those back to state legislators and let them do their job. This is something that I think every state needs to be questioning very carefully and going through the processes to make certain that voter integrity is maintained in every state in the union.

Leahy: Oh, you said something very important there. That the results of the audit will be to provide advice to the state legislators who have the authority in this case. Is that pretty much the plan then?

Hagerty: That is the plan right now which is to go through this process quickly. We’ve got a 10-day limit on it. could be done sooner, Michael. But it’s got to be done quickly. In my view, the questions that are there are the clearest issues having to do with violations of state constitutions of operators other than the state legislatures.

Leahy: Exactly like the Secretary of State and some cases.

Hagerty: Exactly. Or an activist judge.

Leahy: Exactly. Senator Bill Hagerty, congratulations on being sworn in yesterday. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Hagerty: Thank you.

Listen to the full third hour here:

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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio