Live from Music Row Thursday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. – host Leahy welcomed Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies Mark Krikorian to the newsmaker line to discuss his recent call for the withdrawal of the United States from the decades-old 1951 Refugee Convention and its 1967 protocol as the southern border leaks more than Latin American refugees.
Leahy: We are joined now on our newsmaker line by our very good friend, Mark Krikorian, the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies. Mark, welcome and thank you, thank you.
Thank you for writing your very important article at the National Review Online. Time to Withdraw from the UN Refugee Treaty. Thanks so much. It’s about time, isn’t it?
Krikorian: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because we’re talking about a lot of loopholes in the law, and how are we going to, you know, sort of nip here and tuck there. But you got to go to the root of the problem which is that we are subject, we signed a treaty 70 years ago.
This is a lifetime ago. A UN treaty on refugees. But it was written in – the terms of it are based on post World War II and the beginning of the Cold War conditions. That’s a world that no longer exists. And yet we have signed the treaty.
We signed the sequel to it, but it doesn’t matter. We’re still subject to its terms, and we incorporated them into our law. And the main problem here is not refugees that we go and pick and resettle in the U.S. That’s a problem.
But that’s something that’s up to us. We run refugee resettlement. I know Nashville has a real issue with a lot of refugee settlements, but that’s something that we under our law and under our decision-makers do. And I think we need to change it, but we have the power to do that ourselves.
The real problem with this treaty is that it sets up asylum law as well. Which are illegal immigrants coming into the U.S., sneaking in, overstaying a visa, whatever it is, and then saying, you have to let me stay because of the terms of this refugee treaty.
And that’s what we need to fix because if we don’t, we don’t have control over our own borders. Basically, the rest of our immigration laws are irrelevant. If illegal immigrants can just hop over and say, you have to let me stay, I don’t really care what your immigration law is.
Leahy: This treaty was the 1951 United Nations Convention relating to the status of refugees. President Harry Truman in 1951 did not sign that because he felt it infringed on U.S. sovereignty. This is from your article.
In 1968, Lyndon Johnson reversed course and signed the protocol, and the Senate ratified it, binding the U.S. to its terms. The provisions were formally incorporated into a U.S. statute called the Refugee Act of 1980. But you say in your article, Truman was right not to sign it.
Krikorian: Truman was right because he chose not to sign it at the time – 1951 – because he viewed it as infringements or provisions of it as an infringement on U.S. sovereignty. And we resettled refugees between Truman’s decision and then LBJ’s getting us into that treaty, with Congress, passed legislation.
And we did it on our own decision. What happened in 1968 is we bound ourselves to these asylum provisions. But even then, it didn’t make that much difference because, how many people were sneaking across our borders and then saying political asylum in 1968?
It wasn’t seen as a problem – was only when the Cold War ended and transportation and communications around the world became dirt cheap, relatively speaking, and easy and quick. So now, instead of one ballerina from the Soviet Union defecting – which is what asylum is for, defections.
Now we’ve got 200,000 people a month coming across our Mexican border. Not from Mexico or Central America, but from Uzbekistan, Mauritania, Romania, and you name it. We got people coming from all over the world and saying, oh, I fear return. You have to let me stay and let me stay as a refugee.
And Europe faces the same problem. But you know, that’s their problem. They need to deal with it, too. We need to deal with our own problems. And that is not that we’re never going to give asylum to anybody, but that we need to set asylum rules based on the national interest. Based on what’s good for the United States and not based on some UN treaty.
Leahy: Mark, you reference in your outstanding article at National Review Online, a book written in 2011 by John Fonte called Sovereignty or Submission, which is about the struggle between national sovereignty and global governance. Now, I guess, was prophetic. The past 10 years have not been so great for American sovereignty.
Krikorian: No, definitely not. And this book, Sovereignty or Submission, deals with a whole bunch of things. It’s not about immigration. My point was that this issue of refugees and asylum fit into that broader push by these mainly left-leaning groups that see themselves not as citizens of their country.
Not as American groups or French or German or British organizations. And the people in them don’t think of themselves that way. They think of themselves as citizens of the world and they want there to be more and more rules that countries have to follow, whether their people like it or not.
Globalism is kind of the shorthand we use. This refugee treaty is an important part of that globalism push because the point of it is to limit more and more the control a country has and therefore the people of that country have over their own borders.
Because if there are rules set by the UN about who you can deport, who you are legally required to let stay in your country, even if you didn’t choose it, even if they came against you without your consent, then you progressively lose sovereignty over your own borders.
Leahy: I agree with your suggestion that we withdraw from the UN refugee treaty immediately. Let’s talk about the politics of this. What’s the likelihood that in the current Congress that a proposal like this would have any chance of success?
Krikorian: First of all, it’s the president, whoever the president is can withdraw us from a treaty. The way a treaty works is that the president and the people who work for him sign a treaty, negotiate and sign it, and then the Senate has to ratify it.
Okay it or not. If they do that, it becomes law of the land according to the Constitution. The president can then back out of the treaty on his own. He doesn’t need a vote for that. President Trump, for instance, and I’m pretty sure President Bush got us out of a couple of treaties because all treaties have a provision that says, if you want to get out of it, you have to send us a notice.
And then however much time, in this case, one year later, you’re then free of the treaty. Obviously, (Chuckles) President Biden is not going to be pulling us out of the treaty. So this is something that would have to wait until we had a President who was not just more in touch with his surroundings, but just generally speaking, ideologically and politically, very different.
Maybe, hypothetically, a President DeSantis might do something like that. But even then, it’s the necessary first step. But even then, just getting out of the treaty doesn’t free us from the UN provisions. We have to then change the legislation, the law, and that’s something Congress will have to do.
You’ll have to see what the makeup of Congress is at some point. It’s certainly not going to happen with a Democratic majority. It won’t happen immediately with the Republican majority potentially either, because this is one of the reasons I wrote the article.
And that is that no Republican politicians have submitted changes, proposed changes to the refugee law. So this is a discussion that I’m trying to move along. And this kind of, you’re addressing the issue on your show is one step in that direction.
Leahy: We’re talking with Mark Krikorian, the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies. Mark, can you stay with us because when you come back, I’m going to ask the big question about the politics and your outstanding proposal that the United States should withdraw from the United Nations Convention relating to the status of refugees. Can you stick with us through the break?
Krikorian: Sure. I’d be happy too. Thank you.
Listen to the first hour here:
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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio.
Photo “1951 Refugee Convention” by UNHCR.
Live from Music Row Monday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. – host Leahy welcomed Jackson County, Texas Sheriff, AJ ‘Andy’ Louderback to the newsmakers line to weigh in on the crisis at the nations southern border and Biden’s unraveling of Trump policies.
Leahy: We are joined on our newsmaker line now by our friend, Sheriff AJ Louderback from Jackson County, Texas. Welcome, Sheriff Louderback.
Louderback: Good morning. Good morning.
Leahy: You and I met back, I think, a year and a half ago when you were in Washington, D.C., with a group of folks that were part of the Federation for American Immigration Reform. And right then you talked about the problems on the border. Since the inauguration of Joe Biden on January 21st, what’s happened to Jackson County? You’re about halfway between Corpus Christi and Houston. What have you seen that’s different in the past two months?
Louderback: I guess the best place to start is with these policies that have Joe Biden’s signature on them. We went from a very stable border to mass chaos here in Texas. So in the interior of Texas, where ICE has been completely nullified from their activities to the point where they have to even call a supervisor and have written express authorization to do almost anything.
We’re feeling the effects here as all Texas towns and towns throughout the United States are where we have people coming through again. We have illegal aliens showing up on people’s door steps from bailouts. We’re having our trucks stolen here in this area. We live geographically on the major corridor into Houston, Texas. And so it’s the number one human trafficking corridor and huge narcotics trafficking hub of Houston as they spread out to the rest of the United States. So it’s again: where to start, Michael?
It’s the same thing over except this one is much more pronounced and much stronger. ICE and CBP have both been completely taken out of the picture. I used the term gutted back in the Obama administration, and I don’t have a better word today other than they’ve done a much more thorough job of nullifying the federal law about this through policies and executive orders.
Leahy: Would you say the big administration is violating our immigration law?
Louderback: Clearly. They’re completing now through the NGO programs the final leg of the journey into the United States that the cartels used to do, and the cartels are still doing it. But the U.S. government is essentially complicit in that or however, you want to call it. But in McAllen, Texas, which have numerous friends on border patrol and ICE and so forth, and I get the video he sent to me and long been a proponent of a secure border.
I just think that that’s essential to having a country. And obviously, I’m in disagreement with the administration where we have no borders. I call it a zero border today. And we feel the effects here as every state will feel the effects as more and more come in and are transported into the cities and counties across our nation.
Leahy: If the federal government is going to not enforce immigration law, what role can the state government, what role can county governments, and county sheriffs like you, what can you do to stop that?
Louderback: It’s a fascinating area. That’s the one I’ve explored extensively over the years because, obviously our founding fathers I consider much about this as far as a border state and states rights. That’s exactly what the governor can do in the state of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. So I know it’s being explored extensively.
I’ve seen some things out of our Texas governor here, Greg Abbott, and expecting some more. Our Texas AG here has lashed back with lawsuits on the deportation. And we were able to get a 100-day pause on that or so. It appears right now that we don’t have a lot of options or options that are actually being exercised. So waiting on that and exploring that and urging states to pay back in this issue as we become invaded here over and over with a steady stream of people.
Leahy: Sheriff Louderback, I saw that here is an idea from somebody who doesn’t live on the border, but who looks at what states can and cannot do. I saw that Governor Abbott deployed about 500 Texan National Guardsman to be on the border. Was that effective? Is there an opportunity to do more of that kind of thing or not?
Louderback: Well, Michael, I think it has value. Is it the most effective? I’m not sure. I’m glad that something’s being done. And I’m sure the extra help is certainly needed down there. They need resources and those guys are already exhausted. They’re demoralized to the point where imagine you went from a secure and stable border to a policy that completely destroys everything you’ve worked for, for the last two years with policies, no matter if anybody liked them.
The border hadn’t been that stable. And I like that word because the border is a unique area between any country. And it was very stable. We didn’t have any problems. It was more stable and had been in probably 50 years as far as the policies that were in place by the Trump administration. The military was down there and he sent extra troopers down there under Operation Loan Star.
The state lacks the ability currently to be able to turn back the tide and say, look, go back into Mexico and we’re going to restore some type of order on legal immigration coming into this country. Border security under its basic concept would be you were able to do that exactly the way we’ve been doing it in the last two years. So instead, we have mass chaos.
Leahy: If the President of the United States does not enforce existing administration in immigration law, in your opinion, is that an impeachable offense?
Louderback: Well, for me, certainly. I’m a strong advocate for a secure border, and I think you should be able here in the United States to control who comes into your country and who doesn’t? Just the very concept of that is just very basic to me. Very fundamental. As far as being a country obviously, there are people who disagree with that. We shall feel the effects of this. We already are.
The cartel grows ever stronger and enriched by these policies to the point where I don’t think most Americans understand the amount of money that the cartels have and their business model which is one of the most efficient in the world. And I don’t think most Americans understand exactly the types of money and how they profit from this policy here. So we actually have a war going on now on both sides because there is so much money involved. The cartels will actually even fight each other.
They’ll fight law enforcement. They’ll fight Mexican law enforcement. They sent two over here the other day to kill a law enforcement officer in the United States around the Yuma-Cochise County Arizona area. One was captured. I’m not sure if they capture the other one yet, but there are explicit orders from the cartel to take out at least one U.S. police officer.
Leahy: Was the U.S. police officer hurt in that?
Louderback: No. One was intercepted. But intelligence was very clear on it as to what was going on. So it resulted in a four-day search or so. Again, this is in Arizona from the sheriffs there that relayed this to Texas authorities that certain areas where the cartel gets upset with things and then they’re certainly able to put hits out on just about anybody they want.
Leahy: Sheriff Louderback of Jackson County, Texas. Please come back in about a month and tell us if it’s gotten better or worse. Thanks for joining us this morning.
Louderback: That’s good. Thank you, Sir.
Listen to the full second hour here:
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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio.
Live from Music Row Monday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. – Leahy was joined on the line by author and former Acting Director of ICE Tom Homan who weighed in on the severity and legality of the actions being taken at America’s southern border immigration surge.
Leahy: Joined on our newsmaker line now, by fellow upstate New Yorker, Tom Homan, former acting director of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Tom, you were on FOX yesterday saying the border crisis is not incompetence. It’s by design from the Biden maladministration. Maladministration. My word, not yours. What do you say about that, Tom?
Homan: Well, I think it’s obvious. President Biden during the campaign made all these promises that he knew what cause a surge. that he was used vice President in 2014 and 2015 during the last surge, so he knows what causes the surge. I met the White House guys, and I met with the Deputy Secretary Mayorkas.
Leahy: You met with Mayorkas?
Homan: Numerous times.
Leahy: So so tell me this about Mayorkas. Mayorkas strikes me as a zealot who does not want to enforce our laws instead wants to manipulate them to open borders. That’s my take. Am I right or wrong or a little bit off?
Homan: During 14 and 15 We did enforce laws. We built thousands of detention facilities that would help them use remove up when they were all removed. But under this administration, now that he’s Secretary threw a complete opposite. they’re not detaining people. They try to release them as soon as possible. They’re not letting ICE remove anybody. So they’re doing the complete opposite of what they know works.
Leahy: Is this an impeachable offense on Marcus’s part because he’s not enforcing our laws properly? My view. Well, my view is because Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas is not enforcing our immigration laws intentionally. That it is an impeachable offense. That’s my view. What’s your take on that?
Homan: Well, absolutely. He’s not enforced in while he cut the head off ICE. And he opened the board to illegal immigration. I think he facilitated illegal legalization by what he’s doing.
Leahy: What can we do to stop this terrible derogation of duty by the Biden Maladministration and Secretary Mayorkas?
Homan: I think Congress is at. I think the American people need to call you Congressman Senator, and demand the enforce laws are the books.
Leahy: What can Congress do to Tom? Because it’s controlled 222 by 210 by Democrats? Are there any border state Democrats in the House of Representatives who could switch and Act in a way to require Mayorkas and Biden administration to enforce our immigration laws?
Homan: Very few. You got Henry Quail in Texas, I think is tired of the open borders policy. His communities are raised in House, so I don’t think there’s enough. I think we’re in trouble until the ’22 election. I think America got you the elections as consequences, and we’re in trouble right now for next.
Leahy: Well, I know we’re in trouble. And look, I’m just pushing for this. You would need probably six or 7 Democrats to flip choir as one. I think you’re right. Politically, I don’t think there are enough Democrats who have the courage to flip if Congress won’t do anything. What can be done to stop this disastrous surge over the next year?
Homan: Doing what we’re currently doing. Suing administration. I’m the expert witness on the Texas lawsuit. I filed an APA Dave with a Florida lawsuit. So we got counter Republican Texas Attorney General Susan. And so far, we’re doing really well. So we’ll take them to court the same way they took President Trump the court every two weeks.
Leahy: So the Texas attorney general is suing the Biden administration for this open border policy. Where does that court case stand? And what can we expect to happen from that?
Homan: Well, they just one part, the 100 day moratorium the judge says they can’t do that now. We just follow lawsuit saying we don’t like the Ice priorities. They are to go back to Ice arrest people who are in the country legally. Florida is doing the same thing. They’re suing on the policies of Bite administration that are resulting in open borders situation we’re currently in.
There are several other States I can’t speak about right now because it’s in the process. So I think you’re going to see four or 5 States joining together, and they’re all Southern border States to Sue the Bite administration to make them enforce the laws of Congress and acting and not letting them ignore them.
Leahy: What is this country going to look like in October of 2022?
Homan: I think our borders will remain open. I think I see hundreds of thousands of genes across that border that are not going to be held accountable, but also on the flip side, I think the American people will have enough. I think you will see the Republicans take back Congress. I think people are now beginning to see what a bad policy the Biden administration has because, on the Southern border and other things such as oil refineries, I think the American people will finally get to see what President Trump said was going to happen during the election.
Leahy: Will the country be able to recover from this debacle?
Homan: We are a strong country, but it’s going to take a while. You can say there’s going to be hundreds of thousands of people in a country like that won’t be removed. And we have got to hope and pray they don’t get the Amnesty bill passed because that’s going to give Amnesty to almost a million illegal aliens that cross more than the last three years. In the same way, families that were arrested, released, order removed, and never left. I really have other than the States suing the federal government, I don’t have a lot of hope all fixes in the next two years.
Leahy: Tom Homan, former Acting Director of ICE, you grew up in the Watertown, New York area just a few miles from the Canadian border. I saw a report that Secretary Mayorkas may be considering taking immigrants and crossing the Southern border, flying them up to the Northern border states, and processing them up in the Northern border crossing areas because they just don’t have the capacity down in the Southern border. Have you seen these reports? Do you give any credence to them?
Homan: Yes, it’s happened before. Where I’ve never seen time to Northern border, but I have seen them in ’14 and ’15. They formed other states to be processed because there the border is so overwhelmed. But on one hand, the Secretary of my orca says there’s not a crisis on a second again, people all over the country because they can’t handle the surge on the border. So I’ve seen it happen before. Not to the Northern border. But we’ve done it before. We moved around the middle of the U.S during ’14 to process. So it certainly makes sense to me. I have not verified it’s going to happen, but we did it back in ’15. I think you’re going to see happen again.
Leahy: Tom Homan, will you stick with us over the next couple of months and keep us updated on the progress of this litigation that you’re an expert witness on and let all of our listers know?. And, by the way, thanks for everything you’re doing from a media standpoint and on the ground.
Homan: I want to fight, and I’m going to fight for the right.
Leahy: Anybody from Watertown, New York iss a fighter that I know. Tom, thanks for joining us this morning.
Listen to the first hour here:
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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 am to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio.
Live from Music Row Friday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. – host Leahy welcomed Center for Immigration Studies Director of Policy Studies Jessica Vaughan to the newsmakers line to weigh in on the Biden administration’s unofficial policy that has encouraged surge at the southern border and the urgency to fix it.
Leahy: We are joined now by our good friend Jessica Vaughn who is the director of Policy Studies at the Center for Immigration Studies. Jessica, welcome.
Vaughan: Thank you good to be with you!
Leahy: I forced myself to listen to part of the talk or whatever that event was last night with President Joe Biden speaking. I didn’t hear him say anything about the border surge or his terrible immigration policy. Did I miss that?
Vaughan: No. I was not able to tune in but I have not seen any reports of anything mentioned although there are you know, I mean, obviously, this border crisis is certainly raging and threatening to become a disaster. And there are angles to the pandemic issue as well. But no, they want to distract from the border crisis. They want Americans to look at something else and not see the disaster that is brewing down there.
Leahy: And I think you’ve described it right at least from what I’ve been reading about. You’ve been with the center for immigration studies since 1992. You know your stuff. It looks to me like it is an utter disaster down there on the border. Tell us a little bit about the elements of that disaster.
Vaughan: What I was watching on my computer last night during the president’s speech were videos now circulating of streams of people coming across with the aid of smugglers in the areas of the border where there is no wall. And that is a huge problem. And the number of people coming has exploded. It started growing in November. We started getting reports from Central America.
And one of my colleagues went down to Central America and observed that the caravans forming because people expected that the Biden administration was going to reverse policies and allow people to come in again to stay indefinitely as long as they said that they feared return to their home country. That’s what Biden promised and that’s exactly what he’s done. And he’s also suspended enforcement in the interior of the country for all but a few of the worst criminal aliens.
And promising to push through a massive amnesty. All of these are a huge motivation for people to start to come now. And we saw the highest number in February that have tried to come in in one month, or I should say in the month of February in 10 years. This is getting much worse and it’s all because the policies have been reversed. When you promise people that they’re going to be able to come in, they’re going to come and who can blame them?
Leahy: Exactly.
Vaughan: And they say that the message that the president is sending is well, oh don’t come now. We’re going to make a way for you to come later. But the message they’re hearing from their friends and families who have tried this and succeeded and from the criminal smuggling organizations is now is the time because you’re going to get in. And that’s the truth.
Leahy: If you’re an American citizen, do you know and you want to I don’t know travel or do anything apparently now everybody needs to get tested for COVID-19 before they can move around the country is what I see developing. What kind of policy do they have for stopping people with COVID-19 from coming illegally into the country?
Vaughan: This is another area of inconsistency shall we say. The Biden administration says that they are testing new arrivals. That’s only partly true. They’re testing arrivals that they’re putting into the detention centers. And that is a lot of the families with kids who will stay there for a short period and some of the single adults that they’re catching. And they’ll test them before they release them.
These detention spaces are so overwhelmed and filled up with the record numbers of people coming they can’t detain everyone. So in many places, the border patrol is not turning them over to ICE. They’re simply releasing them into communities along the border it mostly in Texas and in Arizona. And saying well, it’s the responsibility of these communities to give tests that they think that’s appropriate. And some of the churches and NGOs are trying to do it. Once the border patrol releases somebody nobody has any control over them.
Leahy: They have no idea where they’re located. They have no idea where to go. So they’re bringing COVID-19 into the United States with illegal aliens.
Vaughan: One important thing to remember is our border patrol sources are saying that yeah, they’re catching a lot of people but they think about three are getting away for every one they catch. And obviously, those people are not tested or quarantined.
Leahy: Yeah, that exactly sounds more like the unofficial policy of the Biden Administration is let them all come in. Now Let me ask you this question. We got three years and 10 months and I don’t have two weeks left of this Biden-Harris administration at the federal level. It looks like they have a total open-door policy. I saw that in Texas governor Abbott sent down the National Guard. Is there a role for state governments in stopping this flood? or is there any hope to stop this flood of illegal immigration?
Vaughan: Well, absolutely. And what Governor Abbott has done is really smart. Texas has the resources and experienced law enforcement agencies that have dealt with these border crises before and know what to do. And that should be a big deterrent. I don’t think that’s going to happen in California and New Mexico. Possibly in Arizona.
But you know, the rest of America should be thanking Texas. But we can’t expect the state of Texas to do the federal government’s job. And in any event, the people who get through do not stay in Texas or in the border areas. They’re coming to communities all throughout the United States. And I think it’s incumbent on these communities and these state governments to release information about who is arriving, what they’re seeing, and what the impact and costs are for state and local communities.
And demand that the federal government deal with this at the federal level. I think when Democratic or more independent states, swing states or whatever, and purple and blue states start really complaining that’s the only way Biden and company are going to pay attention. Congress could do something about this.
State and local governments for example can refuse to accept large numbers of unaccompanied kids to be resettled. I think there are ways to push back. It’s going to take a lot of pushing to make the Biden administration respond. But when they feel it’s a political cost to this crisis that’s when they are going to act.
Listen to the full first hour here:
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