Live from Music Row Monday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. – host Leahy welcomed the original all-star panelist Crom Carmichael to the studio to discuss Big Tech censorship as it relates to being a private company versus common carrier and what that means for federal regulations.
Leahy: Crom, you know, one of our guests here, you kind of liked his last name. Professor of law at Columbia Law School, Philip Hamburger.
Carmichael: Yes.
Leahy: He’s an expert on the rise of the deep state, the administrative state. And he’s a champion of pushing back against that and basing our actions on the Constitution. I note that he’s written an article with Claire Morel for The Wall Street Journal on Big Tech and censorship.
Carmichael: And that was July 31st. And when we interviewed him, which would have been a month – or a month ago, we also interviewed Naomi Wolf. Now Naomi Wolf has – since we interviewed her – has actually even been canceled even more.
And so this is going to be a very interesting lawsuit. The article that Philip Hamburger and Claire Morel have written in The Wall Street Journal argues that Facebook and Twitter and all these giant tech companies are really more like common carriers. Because the common carrier, by the way, can be a private company.
In fact, they all are private companies, but they still are regulated by the federal government. For example, Verizon cannot cancel your phone service if they disagree with what they think you’re going to say on the phone. They can’t do that. That’s not allowed.
Leahy: That’s good because they would have canceled me a long time ago. (Chuckles)
Carmichael: So my point is they can’t.
Leahy: They’re not my carrier.
Carmichael: They can’t. I’m not sure. So you have these big tech companies that are essentially canceling their service to people based on their political opinions. And it isn’t based on whether or not they’re right or wrong. It is truly based on their political opinions. And that’s why when you heard Jen Psaki say that the administration is working with Facebook.
Leahy: Working with Facebook.
Carmichael: Yeah. On misinformation. Naomi Wolf has said that she has tried to put out the word on the facts about COVID and immigration, and they cancel that. Now, those are facts. That it isn’t incorrect or misinformation. The disinformation is incorrect. It’s false information. Misinformation is whatever I don’t like.
Leahy: Right.
Carmichael: And I think that Trump’s lawsuit and the other thing that he’s writing about, the Hamburger and Claire Morel are writing about, is the state laws.
This article is focused on the state laws that say that if you operate in our states, you cannot discriminate based on what people’s opinions are. It’ll be very interesting to see how those lawsuits work because Florida has already passed that law.
Leahy: But the courts have struck it down.
Carmichael: They hadn’t gotten to the Supreme Court yet. A court has struck it down.
Leahy: Let me follow up on that. Here’s what they said about that particular.
Carmichael: Sure.
Leahy: A district court struck it down. Here’s what Philip Hamburger has said about that. ‘The recent court dependent questioning the Florida anti-censorship statute noted that in censoring some speech the tech companies are choosing what speech they will convey. From this, the court concluded that the company’s platforms and services were more akin to newspapers than common carriers.
Unlike a newspaper, these platforms and services are offered to the public for the conveyance of their speech. Unlike a newspaper, they serve the function of a common carrier. What is more, they enjoy market dominance.
Carmichael: This is what Hamburger told us when he was on our call. That was before …
Leahy: Trump’s lawsuit.
Carmichael: And before Florida’s decision. And so this will work its way up in the courts, and we’ll find out. And I think ultimately it will end up in the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court obviously takes very few cases.
Leahy: It’ll be the Supreme Court probably in the 2022 to 2023 session.
Carmichael: I think it’ll be sooner than that.
Leahy: Before the next 2021 or 2022.
Carmichael: Yes. I think it will be before the ’22 election.
Leahy: Okay. So here’s the problem. I’ll give you two words that are a problem. The first word is John. And the second word is Roberts.
Carmichael: No. This will be a very interesting court case. This will be an entire court case.
Leahy: Do you think Roberts will surprise us?
Carmichael: I think the whole Supreme Court might surprise us. But here’s the difference. A newspaper has its own opinions, and it controls everything in the newspaper, and everybody knows that. But in the case of Facebook, Facebook allows some people to express their opinions and disallows other people to express their opinions just because they don’t like the opinions.
Well, that’s not the same thing as a newspaper. I think the question will come down to, are these entities more like common carriers or more like newspapers? And if they are judged to be more like common carriers, then they will lose their ability to censor. And they are censoring.
Let’s be very clear about what they’re doing. They are censoring. If they were censoring all Black people from conveying their opinions, they would be guilty under the Civil Rights Act violation. There would be a violation of the Civil Rights Act.
So now the question is, can they discriminate against people based on their opinion? Can they discriminate against a Black person based on that person’s opinion? Like, could they cancel Ben Carson if he wrote an article about COVID?
He is an eminent physician and what he would – it would likely be entirely accurate, but it would be different from what the Biden administration would want. Would Facebook have the right to cancel him?
Leahy: Here’s what I think about this, Crom. I think you’re right. I think ultimately all of these Big Tech lawsuits, ultimately, in one version or another will go to the Supreme Court.
Carmichael: Yes.
Leahy: There’s no question about that. What makes me nervous about that is the tendency of the chief justice to make political rather than legal decisions. That’s what makes me nervous.
Carmichael: I think the opinion may be a bit watered down, but I would be astounded if the Supreme Court ruled in favor of censorship because that would be what they would be ruling in favor of. They would be ruling in favor of censorship.
Leahy: I was astounded in 2012 when the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Obamacare.
Carmichael: But you have three different justices on there now.
Leahy: And I am disappointed in all three of them.
Carmichael: I am more optimistic, perhaps realistic, maybe. We don’t know.
(Inaudible crosstalk)
Carmichael: I think it will work its way up through the courts. Philip Hamburger’s article is a very interesting one. And poor Naomi Wolf. She was a leftist, and she’s going to be in our camp now.
Leahy: She’s a realist now. (Chuckles)
Listen to the full third hour here:
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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio.
Live from Music Row Monday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. – host Leahy welcomed the original all-star panelist Crom Carmichael to the studio to discuss two articles from The Wall Street Journal and came to the conclusion that Republicans need to learn how to make better use of the government in helping their constituents.
Leahy: Joining us in studio, the original all-star panelist, Crom Carmichael. Crom, good morning.
Carmichael: Good morning, Michael.
Leahy: Well, kind of an interesting weekend. President Trump went down to CPAC and gave a fiery speech that was quickly then censored by YouTube. What a shock. What a shock. (Chuckles)
Carmichael: It really is amazing that if it’s Trump is just censored automatically.
Leahy: Brazen. Brazen violations.
Carmichael: He sued. And we’ll find out what the courts say and whether or not a private company can on one hand make claims of being just a platform and on the other hand, not act in the same way that they claim to be acting. We’ll just see.
Leahy: We will see.
Carmichael: I would describe it as false advertising. And then we’ll just see whether or not that’s allowed.
Leahy: Big news for the Star News Network. As we’ve got eight state-based news sites, we are launching the mobile-friendly Star News Network website this week.
That’ll be up. We’re working with a couple of tag lines for it. The Star News Network.
So a couple of ones that we’re kicking around are ‘journalism you can trust.’ ‘Trustworthy journalism.’ ‘Real journalism.’
Carmichael: I like the first one better than the second one.
Leahy: Journalism you can trust?
Carmichael: I like it more than the second one. You gave two very quick ones. Journalism you can trust sounds better than what was the second one?
Leahy: Trustworthy journalism?
Carmichael: I like that one.
Leahy: I like the first one.
Carmichael: I like the first one better.
Leahy: You know, we’ve got to make a decision about which one we’re going to go with right now. That’s kind of the leading one, ‘journalism you can trust.’
But we’re still kicking it around. We’ll find out later this week what we stick with. It’ll be on all of our sites. I’m going up to Madison, Wisconsin, on Friday, right after the show.
We’re going to jump in the car running out to the airport. And we’re going to be interviewing reporters up in Madison. That’ll be our ninth state. And looking forward to that.
Carmichael: Good.
Leahy: Wisconsin in the summer sounds good.
Carmichael: Better than the winter.
Leahy: Better than the winter. And then next week, our own Laura Baigert will be going out to the Trump rally in Phoenix, Arizona.
And that will be our second report from the Star News Network wire service. We’ve got about 10 news outlets picking it up around the country.
By September the first we think we’ll probably have, you know, we’ll be up to 25, maybe 50. We’ll just keep going.
Carmichael: Well, good.
Leahy: So we’ve been busy. I know you’ve been busy reading.
Carmichael: Yes.
Leahy: What’s on your agenda today?
Carmichael: There are two articles in The Wall Street Journal and one is kind of interesting. If you read the political section of The Wall Street Journal it generally leans left, but it almost always misses the main story.
In the opinion section, I would say that it is mostly logical. Mostly. But it too oftentimes misses the main point. But in this one, this is a story titled, President Biden’s Executive Order Opens New Front in Battle with Big Tech.
And it talks about how President Biden has passed an executive order, telling the agencies like the FTC to adopt tougher policies to rein in the power of large tech platforms.
Nothing could be further from the truth as to the purpose of it. And I’m not trying to disparage the reporters. The people who write in the political section are probably generally young, and they’re not able to kind of see-through what the real agenda is.
Because you were touching on it with the person you were interviewing. And that is what Biden calls the whole of government.
And that’s a quote. The whole of government is a term. The whole government approach to equity. And what this is, combining this with the other story this is Joe Biden’s 20th-century trustbuster.
This is where Biden has modeled his spending agenda. Well, it says that he’s going to be using the administration to make sure the Big Tech companies can’t acquire other companies.
And it’s a whole bunch of stuff of supposedly using the federal government as a trustbuster and to go after platform companies, broadband companies, and all these other things. And that’s not what this is about.
Leahy: Not at all. I had the same reaction. This is the typical Democratic ploy. They call something one thing when it’s really going to accomplish exactly the opposite.
Carmichael: Yes. I’m quoting. ‘As the White House detailed it’s, Executive Order one Democrat FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter said in a tweet ‘So excited about by POTUS’s executive order on the competition.
It is an ambiguous agenda that will help our markets work better and create a more equitable economy for all people. Especially workers, marginalized communities, entrepreneurs, and small businesses.’
Now, all that means is it’s just like this COVID relief bill. This will be highly targeted at particular political interest groups. The money will be made by those who are well connected with the government (i.e.very similar to the Communist Chinese Party.)
And the use of it will be essentially to threaten Big Tech companies. Not to cause them to change anything, just to threaten them to support their ideology.
Leahy: Exactly.
Carmichael: That’s all it will be. If you don’t do as I tell you. Now, let me mention that during the Obama years, the way that banking regulators if a bank wanted to open up a new branch, it had to get permission from the federal government. If a bank wanted to close the branch, it had to get permission.
If a bank wanted to make an acquisition, it had to get permission. It was so bad during the Obama years, especially his second term, that the banks just simply didn’t open or close branches.
Especially community banks. They didn’t open or close branches because the federal government would come in and force them to make loans that they knew would never be repaid.
And so it essentially forced them to. And then later, you had the banking crisis. So this is the same type of thing. This will be government.
Here’s what’s interesting, Michael, and that is, this game can be played by both parties. But as we have discussed in the past, the Republican Party does not seem to respond in kind.
So let me give you an example of how this game should be played, in my opinion, by Republicans. If Republicans were to be in charge of the House and the Senate and the presidency after 2024, Republicans ought to set up a foundation, maybe even have some stick figures drawn in art. (Leahy chuckles)
Leahy: I’m with you.
Carmichael: I’m not joking at all here, but to be more explicit and just say if we’re not saying that you will get what you want, but you will be heard.
But you must make a contribution to this foundation. And this foundation will be designed explicitly to set up charter schools in our inner cities where the government-run school systems have failed.
Period. And that if you want to be heard, we’re not talking hundreds of thousands of dollars of contributions or millions. With Big Tech we’re talking billions.
And you would raise 50 billion dollars over a period of three or four years, and you would then build out charter schools. Then the second thing is an executive order requiring all government unions to split their contributions based on the voting in presidential elections within their own states.
Leahy: That would be equitable Crom. (Laughs)
Carmichael: That’s what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, is if you’re a government union and your state went 52-48 one way or the other, doesn’t matter.
52 percent of the contributions would go to the party that had 52 percent and 48 percent go the other because these are government employees.
The union dues are paid for by the taxpayers. That’s how they’re done. Republicans need to learn how to use government to further an agenda for all Americans.
That’s what they need to learn how to do. Democrats, on the other hand, try to use the government to help just their constituents.
Leahy: I see the phone is ringing. It’s Mitch McConnell. He’s ready to take your advice.
Carmichael: Ready to take my call.
Leahy: We’ll do that in the break. (Laughter)
Listen to the full second hour here:
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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio.
Live from Music Row Wednesday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. – host Leahy welcomed the original all-star panelist Crom Carmichael to the studio to discuss how the Biden agenda is not dead as it continues to push forward through the administrative state conveniently allowing the mainstream media to blame Republicans.
Leahy: We joined in studio by our good friend, the original all-star panelist Crom Carmichael. Crom, good morning.
Carmichael: Michael. Good morning, Sir.
Leahy: Lots of things happening yesterday in Washington. In fact, we’re going to have today a couple of reports from Washington. Neil McCabe joins us at 7:15. The best Washington correspondent in the country. He works for The Tennessee Star and Star News Network. Senator Bill Hagerty will be here with us at 7:30.
Carmichael: Oh, okay.
Leahy: So I’m going to ask him a tough question to begin with. And then we’ll go on to talk about the border. And S1. S1, you want to talk about that. S1 is the bill last night, that the Democrats call For the People Act. Republicans call it the Corrupt Politician Act.
Carmichael: I want to put a couple of things into context. First of all, S1, all 50 Democrats voted for it.
Leahy: All 50.
Carmichael: And all 50 Republicans vote against it. And it’s very important that we understand that s one was really nothing but a head fake. That’s all it was. And then the question about the filibuster is nothing but a head fake.
Please understand that people say the Biden agenda is dead. The Biden agenda is dead. It’s not dead. They’re just not going to pass it through the legislature. And the legislature does not care.
Leahy: That’s a very important point.
Carmichael: The Biden agenda is being done through the administration. I was with a fellow yesterday, and he was telling me that in his large company that every month between four and 500 people are required to be on a two hour Zoom call for a two-hour call. And Black employees are allowed and encouraged to rail against white employees. And the white employees are required to be on the call.
Leahy: This is all part of the diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts.
Carmichael: Well, it’s called ESG.
Leahy: Environmental social governance. That’s the standard. We were talking yesterday here with Dan Grant of 2nd Vote Advisers. It’s basically a money market fund and exchange traded funds that are pushing against that.
ESG is the product of the big money manager BlackRock headed up by a very bad guy by the name of Larry Fink. He goes around to all these publicly traded companies and says, here are the ESG standards you must follow. And they include doing those kinds of trainings.
Carmichael: But the ESG standards are being promulgated by the federal government. He’s just the messenger.
Leahy: He may be the cause of those regulations.
Carmichael: No, he’s not Michael. He’s not. And I’m not trying to defend the guy.
Leahy: Let’s talk about those regulations.
Carmichael: The ESG, first it is environmental. The second is social. And the third is governance. Right now, the governance has to do with the makeup of your board and of your executive officers.
Leahy: Of a publicly-traded company.
Carmichael: Of a publicly-traded company. That’s the governance part. You have to have the right number of women and minorities and all these other groups represented on your board and in your officer group.
And I’m talking about now the executive people, not the military. Military is an entirely different issue which is ESG on an accelerated pace. But then going backward. That was the governance part.
The S part is the social part, and that gets into what I’m talking about now. The corporations across the country that are regulated by the SEC, which is all publicly traded companies, they’re doing exactly what I just described.
They’re having these enormous calls where Black employees are being encouraged to essentially humiliate the white employees. And what I’m interested in thinking about here is, does that do any good?
Leahy: It doesn’t.
Carmichael: I agree. But these companies are being forced. They’re being forced. And this is why I say this is not Fink because think can’t make people do anything Michael. That’s what I’m saying.
He may like the idea and he may be for the idea, but he doesn’t have…when we say institutional racism, there’s nothing he can do institutionally because he’s just a guy that controls a huge amount of money.
But when the federal government and the SEC calls the CEO of a company and says you are not following federal regulations, we are coming after you. How do you think that CEO will react?
Leahy: But let me step back for a moment because you’re adding something new to the picture here. And I wonder if you could elaborate on this. You’re saying that the SEC has current regulations.
Carmichael: No, I’m not saying they have current regulations. I’m just telling you what they’re doing. You don’t have to have a regulation to be a thug. You don’t you don’t have to make it lawful. You just have to do it. (Chuckles)
Leahy: Let’s step back and see if I understand the argument here. So you’re saying that SEC executives are calling up CEOs of Fortune 500 companies?
Carmichael: No, I’m not saying that. They don’t have to. They don’t have to. Large companies are getting the message, however they’re getting it. But if they don’t do what they’re supposed to do, they’ll get the call.
Leahy: Yeah, but here’s what I’m asking you, though. When you say they’re supposed to do. There’s some kind of communication that they’re receiving.
Carmichael: Yeah.
Leahy: We’re trying to understand what’s going on out there. What I’m telling you is my understanding is they’re getting that communication through ‘stewardship teams’ that Larry Fink’s BlackRock has set up, that go out and talk to the CEOs.
Carmichael: Okay, well, that’s fine.
Leahy: But you’re saying that they’re getting it through the SEC?
Carmichael: No. What I’m saying is that if Fink is doing what you’re saying he’s doing, and I’m not saying he’s not, when he does it, he says if you don’t do what I’m telling you to do the SEC will. Just like in the military. You saw where the military where Austin has now unilaterally done away with the Military Code of Justice. He’s gone away with it.
Leahy: The Secretary of Defense.
Carmichael: Yes. I don’t know if you saw that.
Leahy: When did that happen?
Carmichael: Yesterday. It might have been the day before, and it was reported yesterday.
Leahy: This is 250 years of military code.
Carmichael: I’m just telling you that the Biden agenda is being carried out in the administrative state. The Congress doesn’t matter anymore. And this is all a head fake. This is a head fake so that the media minions can simply ban the Republicans for the Biden agenda not moving forward when, in fact, it is moving forward.
Leahy: I have a couple of things to say about that. Where is Columbia Law School Professor Philip Hamburger when we need him? He’s the expert on the abuses of administrative law, judges, and the regulatory process. And number two, and this is very interesting. Have you read something about this?
Carmichael: I’m logically putting the pieces together.
Leahy: You’re putting it logically together.
Carmichael: But I also know for a fact certain things are happening. So I’m taking the certain things that actually I know are happening and I’m piecing them together. I know, for example, that Senate Bill 1 failed yesterday because they didn’t reach 60, but they did get all 50 Democrats.
Leahy: All of them. Stepped in line.
Carmichael: Everyone one of them. Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema stepped in line to claim that Republicans are trying to suppress the vote. That claim is false. But that’s the claim. By the way, 46 out of 47 European countries require voter ID. Republicans want people to prove who they are to vote. Democrats do not want that. Period.
Leahy: They want illegal aliens to be able to vote. They want dead people to vote.
Carmichael: No, dead people. So how do dead people vote, Michael?
Leahy: Somebody forges and somebody pretends to be.
Carmichael: Or just stuff the ballot box and make up names and stuff the ballot box. There are two books. One book I can remember and the other one I can almost remember. The Secrets of the Hopewell Box.
Leahy: Oh yes!
Carmichael: It’s about all the corruption that went on in Nashville where they just literally stuffed the ballot box with the correct number of ballots. It didn’t matter if there was a voter name attached to it. I’m getting ready to read that book, and I’ll report some details. The other one is Fried Chicken Fiddlesticks or whatever it is. And that’s more about Tennessee politics historically and how similar things were done.
Leahy: By James Squires. Wasn’t he a big editor at USA Today?
Carmichael: Yes. Yes. But this is back a long time ago.
Leahy: It’s about the 40s or 50s.
Carmichael: So I’ve got that book and I’m going to read it.
Leahy: I can’t wait to hear what you say about that.
Carmichael: But it’s all about pure voter cheating. Stuffing ballot boxes with fake ballots and then counting them because you can.
Leahy: History repeating itself.
Carmichael: Yes.
Listen to the full second hour here:
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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio.
